Things Of Infinite Importance 2
أهلا و سهل ,
Ahlan wa-sahlan,
Dubhaltach the follower of the Prophet Jesus (PBUH) the friend of my childhood and the son of the friend of my father and I have spoken together. After discussions we have agreeed to repost this that I wrote originally for the American Christian Priest Michael Kinman on February 15th, 2007. There is a discussion between he and I there. You might find it useful. For those who do not wish to do that. The Christian Priest asked a question I replied here Things of Infinite Importance I followed up my reply with this in an attempt to open dialogue with him. He has so far not replied. At the bottom of the post there are notes on Prophet Isa (Jesus) (PBUH)
Mohammed Ibn Laith
The answer to your question is that you are as you are because your society worships things and not God.
This place has been set aside that we may first discuss in a slightly more formal way than real-time discussion that which interests us. That you may have some notion of what it is I believe I have placed some notes here first I will outline what I as a Muslim believe about your Propher Isa (Jesus) (PBUH):
The American War Against Islam
What America is doing is a new crusade the first that was launched was under the pretense of religion and European used it to unite their culture which was rising again from
that it had gone to barbarism when Rum fell.
This new American crusade is without even bad excuse of false religion by which I means saying as the reason war in name of teachings of your Prophet Isa
This crusade is a crusade of western secularism. And the crass and crude materialism that it gave birth to.
This is new crusade for greed and for culture and society that was built on genocide and slavery and theft on whole society bult on denying that the world is the creation of God and that tries to pretend to itself that when it rapes the world for its owh profit when it poisons its own lands and rivers and the air that you breathe and that I too must breathe that it is not committing corrupting disgusting sin against God.
And it can do this because it lies to itself saying that religion and world are separate, as a Muslim I tell you that they are not separate
To put manmade things above God is the source of evil that America has become. The evil in side your land and your culture is like in the story told by your Prophet Isa (PBUH) about how rulers of the Jews in his time were like the graves that they built outside very pretty but inside corrupt and dead and would disease you if you touched it and did not wash the contamination away. Because the corrupt this dead evil thing in American is what it is that lets America say that “we are owners.”
“We can own slave we can take and loot and exploit what we will we can wipe out whole nations that were here first because government and will of God are two separated things.”
And what it is that has died are the manmade things you call “democracy” and “constitution” and “republic” these are what is dead and corrupted things behind the smiling face of America and they died because it was manmade thing. I have read it and read many American things and they are noble and good but they are manmade and so they die and fall to corruption and dangerous badness but hidden by outside beauty of the words and the noble idea that has died.
It died because it was manmade and your rulers lied to their people and told them that happiness comes from material things that only progress possible is material progrees and must always buy more and more and more new things at false price never count cost to people things used to make these new shiny things that your people believe they must have to make their dream of finding happiness come true. And it is easy to believe these lies no? Feel heart swell with unearned pride. Feel eyes fill with unearned pride when seeing your flag? “Old Glory” what is glorious about Abu Ghraib? Where was glory in rape of Abeer? Where was glory in chemical weapons against Fallujah? And then go home and use unearned luxury unearned event though maybe person worked hard for it because real price was paid by me and by my people or by people in south american lands or by people in Africa or by anyone except them and their rulers.
In Islam we call this “Shirk” and it means idolatry. The worshipping of a false God. The worshipping of unearned comfort the worshipping of the belief that you may take what you will and do what you will and if any opposed why then we are evil and must be killed or tortured or raped or starved until we understand that America is new master race like the Germans believed they were-
When I and my Iraki brothers go out onto internet — I say “Iraki” and not “Muslim” brothers because several of us are followers of Prophet Isa (PBUH) — and read what is written on American sites about the war America is making against even those who say against war they talk alwqys of what war is doing to them what war is doing to their people maybe as by the side thing one will make comment of oh must not forget poor Irakis. Poor dirty little sand nigger who have been treaten like dog shot by amrican soldier we must be nice to poor dog. But still just dog. Human dog perhaps but still just dog. Bind up human dogs wounds but still just dog. Human Dog who certailny must not be allowed run own home because really not human just dog.
THere are good Americans just as there were good Germans and just as there were good Turks when Turks did genocide in Armenia I am willing to beleive that you are one but you must understand this.
I am a Muslim I am Iraki maybe you believe that God told you that must turn aside when you have been struck.
That is not what God tells me.
What God tells me is what he tells every other Muslim when you are attacked you defend yourself and you keep on figthing until your attacker is in such pain that they offer truce or surrender. You attack back and you continue attacking relentlessly, never ever giving any respite, until the invader flees worn out with grief and horror and pain. Any sacrifice is warranted to expel the American
I feel no grief when I see an American soldier die. I feel only relief that this one less barbarian to kill innocent Iraki children.
What shall we talk about today you and I?
Mohammed Ibn Laith
Notes on Prophet Isa (Jesus)
1. Do I as a Muslim believe he was a Messenger of One God?
YES
Belief in all of the Prophets and Messengers of God is a central article of faith in Islam. Therefore, believing in the Prophets Adam, Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them) is a requirement for all who calls themselfs Muslims.
A person claiming to be a Muslim who denies the Messengership of Jesus, is not considered a Muslim.
The Holy Holy Qur’an says in reference to the status of Jesus as a Messenger of God:
“The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!” (Holy Qur’an 5:75).
Yes we call Prophet Isa the Messiah and in the end days he will reappear with The Mahdi and help The Mahdi establish God’s reign on earth.
2. Do I as a Muslim believe Prophet Isa (PBUH) was born of a Virgin Mother?
YES
Mary, or Maryam as she is called in Arabic, was a chaste, virgin woman, who miraculously gave birth to Jesus.
“Relate in the Book the story of Mary, when she withdrew from her family, to a place in the East. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our spirit (angel Gabriel) and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: I seek refuge from you in God Most Gracious (come not near) if you do fear God. He said: Nay, I am only a Messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a pure son. She said: How shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me, and I am not unchaste? He said: So it will be, your Lord says: ‘That is easy for Me; and We wish to appoint him as a sign unto men and a Mercy from Us’: It was a matter so decreed” (Holy Qur’an 19:16-21).
3. Do I as a Muslim believe Prophet Isa (PBUH) had a miraculous birth?
YES
The Holy Qur’an says:
“She (Mary) said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.’ He (God) said: ‘So (it will be) for God creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: ‘Be!’- and it is” (3:47).
You should also note that the Holy Holy Qur’an says this:
“Verily, the likeness of Jesus in God’s Sight is the likeness of Adam. He (God) created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!’-and he was” (Holy Qur’an 3:59).
4. Do I as a Muslim believe Jesus spoke in the cradle?
YES
“Then she (Mary) pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?’ He (Jesus) said: ‘Verily! I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; ” (19:29-30).
5. Do I as a Muslim believe that Prophet Isa (PBUH) performed miracles?
YES
These miracles however were performed by the will and permission of God, Who has power and control over all things.
“Then will God say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! recount My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit (the angel Gabriel) so that you did speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold: you make out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and you breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by My leave, and you heal those born blind, and the lepers by My leave. And behold! you bring forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the children of Israel from (violence to you) when you did show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic’ (5:110).
6. Do I as a Muslim believe in the Trinity?
NO
As a Muslim I believe in the Absolute Oneness of God. God has no partners in His Divinity. He is the Creator of everything and is completely separate from His creation.
God says in the Holy Qur’an regarding the Trinity:
“People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.’ Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian” (Holy Qur’an 4:171).
7. Do I as a Muslim believe that Jesus was the son of God?
NO
“Say: “God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!” (Holy Qur’an 112:1-4).
In The Holy Holy Qur’an God also states:
“Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be’ and it is” (Holy Qur’an 19:34-35).
8. Do I as a Muslim believe Prophet Isa (Jesus) (PBUH) was killed on the cross then resurrected?
NO
“They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Holy Qur’an 4:156)
Indexed under: Christianity, Follow Up, Islam“God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Holy Qur’an 4:157) .
2 Responses
to “Things Of Infinite Importance 2”
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As I read what you have written, I have so many questions.
I have always been fascinated by the place that Jesus holds within Islam. Personally, I am unique in that I don’t believe in the Trinity, nor the physical resurrection of Jesus, or the virgin birth. I focus on what Jesus taught rather than the supernatural aspects. I simply don’t think they were possible. I don’t see my faith as the one true faith, but the path that is part of my upbringing, as your faith is your path. They are paths that don’t have to be in conflict. I figure you might disagree with this, but I see you as my equal when it comes to faith. I have never seen Islam as a false faith.
It pains me to see suffering your people go through because of my people’s pride, greed, and fear. I have been against this war from the start, because I knew the people who would die were innocent. I tried to convince anyone that I met that it was wrong, but really that wasn’t enough.
The problem with all of this has always been that American’s consider their own people more important than other human beings, and believe we somehow we hold some special place. It is ethno-centrism that I have never understood. My father is an Episcopal priest, and has always taught me that all people were equal and deserved dignity. Each person deserves to be treated with dignity. You can’t punish a group of people for the actions of individuals, but that is what we have done.
I pray for peace each day and hope the dead find peace. I know that doesn’t help, because I am not the one who suffers. My people consume like pigs while your people fight for scraps. It is an injustice that we will pay for many years for now.
While I disagree with the view of conflict and the need to fight, I understand it. While I loathe the idea of ever killing another human being, I know I would be hard pressed not to fight if the situation were reversed. Maybe that is where Islam and Christianity differ. I do not want to fight anyone. Maybe I am even unique for a Christian. I don’t want to kill the “terrorists” or Osama bin Ladin. I want to talk to them and make peace. If I can’t make peace, then I want to just leave them alone. Nothing good will come of this violence. Until the American people wake up, there will never be peace between our people. Our own greed, ignorance and pride will destroy us.
A quote comes to mind every time I look at what is going on in Iraq. “Peace is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice.” Martin Luther King Jr. said that while rallying against the Vietnam War in the 1960’s.
Americans only concern themselves with their own selfishness. There can be no peace in this world until the United States seeks justice for all people, rather than justice for only its people. Until we treat every person, regardless of who they are, in a just manner, we will know only conflict and war.
I hope that one day we can find peace, but that won’t happen until we seek justice for one another.
Something I would like to probe further into is your view on our Constitution. I have never really seen it as a materialistic. I have never seen it as such. It is about letting people be who they choose to be, regardless of religion, race, or any other aspect. Do you consider it materialistic because it is a secular document rather than a religious document? Part of the reason we separate church and state is to protect religion from the government as much as to protect the government from religion. I want to know your thoughts on this.
Peace to you but you have not understood what I wrote or why. It shows in your last question. There is no separation in Islam of what you would call “Church and State” None.
I am not interested not even a little in your constitution its whole basis is one I reject. It is a man created thing that puts man at the centre. This is idolatry.
As a Muslim I look to the Holy Qur’an and to what God says in the Holy Qur’an:
Holy Quran 2: 256
or again:
Holy Quran 3:84
Holy Quran 49:13
Holy Quran 2:213
How your country is run is a matter for you as an American. I am not interested. What I am interested in is that America is violently trying to impose its will upon my people. I am interested in expelling the American invader from my home. That is all I am interested in.
To be continued after Friday prayers.