Syrians torch Danish, Norway embassies over cartoon
Note to commenters and would-be commenters: I’ll get around to reading and either accepting or rejecting your comments as and when I can. I’ll add that so far I’ve rejected every single comment. I will not under any circumstances whatsoever publish comments that seek to inflame ethnic or religious tensions here in Denmark or anywhere else in the world for that matter. I don’t give a damn whether you’re a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Hindu, an Atheist, or whatever you think of yourself as - if you’ve come here to make either inflamatory or “snarky” comments, you’re wasting your time.
No tag for this post.
Mark,
Gert put together what I thought was a very well balanced piece on his blog. I think it’s worth reading - to see how one European agnostic [which, incidentally, I have been myself, for years now.] sees all this.
And for what i’ts worth, here’s a comment I posted there.
*At 5:08 PM, Richard said…
* Our first priority must be to address the material disadvantages many Muslims face worldwide. Until we do that in earnest, we should refrain from stupid, insulting cartoons, not by way of a self-imposed, legally binding gagging order (as the government have found, it’s difficult to legislate in these matters) but out of discretion, good sense, good taste and goodwill.
Well said, Gert. I could not agree more. Cheap shots/laughs have always had a habit of coming back to bite arse. And rightly so, in my opinion.
Congratulations. You’ve written the only post so far that I’ll publish. I took a very quick look at Gert’s posting but will have to come back to it tomorrow as I’ve got to go out. Many thanks for pointing it out to me.
Mark,
How on whatever’s green earth did we get in this mess? What with our national baboon getting ready to take out Iran, the Muslim world going bonkers, the religious right claiming dibs on our social scene. Time to retire to Clifden. (but, I just saw a cheap hotel room was 98e!!!)
Doc,
Glad you stopped by sorry not to respond earlier blogger was having problems. People got complacent saying to themselves either “it couldn’t happen here” or “it couldn’t happen again.” Well I could say
Let’s not forget that this has been building for more than a generation. In the US people like Paul Weyrich, Richard Vignerie, and Howard Phillips first cut their teeth on the Goldwater campaign. They cut loose from Reagan because he wasn’t right-wing enough for them and teamed up with Falwell in 1979. (Falwell’s movement was already beginning to test it’s political strenght and was perfect for their needs.)
They’ve been building up to this for quite literally a lifetime. On a personal note - My first boss was a far seeing man. One day back in ‘79, he dumped several huge files of paper clippings, meticuloulsy organised, doucumenting the rise of the militantly religious right in the States, which he’d bought and paid for out of his own pocket, onto my desk.
“I’ve some unpaid overtime for you - Keep an eye on these fuckers.”
He returned two minutes later with another armful of files this time documenting the first stirrings of Islamic activism in the middle east.
“Keep an eye on this. And don’t miss the obvious thing that everyone else has missed, the Arabs aren’t afraid any more.”
He paused as he left “Of course the Yanks and the Brits are going to fuck it up, there’ll be fireworks.”
He was a wise and farseeing man. Would that there were more like him.
Oh Fuck indeed! A God awful mess -with BOTH sides fanning the flames - the West indignant over ‘free speech rights’ and Muslims world wide insensed. I am reminded of my school European history books from the 60’s and 70’s with their old Punch cartoons taking jabs at the pinata of the day - Micks, Jews, Germans, Italians or Turks. They were downright nasty and these current cartoons are no different. I read this morning in the Guardian how the same Danish newspaper refused to run anti-Jesus cartoons several months ago. I refuse to get sucked into an extremist’agenda’ on either side. Innocent people are getting hurt - Christians in Lebanon for one according to the S.F. Chronicle and it will only get worse. The timing of this inferno couldn’t be worse as British and Nato troops with Danish contingent pick up the slack in Afghanistan. I expect a ration of shit for this comment - but somebody somewhere for the love of God look at those old Punch cartoons especially from World War I.
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Incidentally I’ve so far rejected more than 50 comments the bulk of them (48) from North America and about evenly divided between so-called “liberals” and so-called “conservatives.” What they have in common is bigotry.
You’ll get no shit from me Grania nor will I tolerate it from anybody else. If somebody wishes to disagree with you, me, or anybody else on this site, then they do so politely or not at all.
- I remember those cartoons. In between my ‘phone going demented, meetings, and all the usual. I’m doing a long a very long posting on this.
Don’t get yourself all worked up over this Mark. I feel the fervour is a little contrived on all sides. For a number of reasons I am very suspicious of the western press - Oh goody just read in the Guardiant that the Jerusalem Post is going to publish the cartoons - nothing like showing restraint. Brace yourselves lads!
Given family circumstances and how much our families have already suffered and are how we are likely to continue to do so. I think a little bit of being “worked up” is demanded. I am sorry if this sounds bitter but that is how I feel. (And you are right in your comment Grania about the Western press in general. This is demonising people and they have been at it for a very long time. )
Yeah it’s always people like us who have to step up and clean up the mess. It’s us who do the cleaning and it us who do the screaming in pain when we’re wounded and its us who do the weeping when our kids are killed. And its us who have to step in time and time again between the bigots on all sides. Some of us are getting a little tired of it.
I hope this gets through the censors.
But I’m fed up with Americans telling us how we should get down and lick the ground in front of their feet because they fought for “our freedom.” That debt is long paid and the fact is that America like the rest of the west has a long vicious and evil history of empire building self righteous violent racism - the only difference is that they don’t even trouble to hide it anymore. This is basically an American created mess. Let them fix it by effing off home and staying there.
Same goes for that Danish newspaper. Is my memory playing tricks on me or have they pulled this sort of thing before?
And FINALLY M, du, erdla, what’s the connection between the timing and the Hadj?
what’s the connection between the timing and the Hadj?
Well spotted deco.
What Deco said.
All of this is just another way of smashing us down. Weserners are very happy to get rich on our backs support and give help to the tryants who oppress us treat us as less than dirt and then blame us for extremism.
You liars, you swine, you thieving lieing hippocties. You built your rich world on our backs and on our blood. Do you wonder that our children despare and hate you? When people arose who wanted to reform our governments your governments stood and cheered as the tyrants put them down. You stood by when we beieved you and rose against Saddam and then because you are thiving dogs Your oh so clever and wnderful newspapers and tlevisions talked about how our “enlightened” rulers were bringing us forward. And now in desperation many of our young people turn to those who defile our beautiful Islam with hate. I do not even know where my parents my my brother my wife and my children are buried because I was fool I was an idiot I was STUPID TO BELIEVE AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT who said RISE AGAINST THE TYRANT SADDAM WE WILL SUPORT YOU. YOU DID NOT SUPPORT US YOU STABBED IN BACK AND LEFT ME AND MY FAMILYY TO SADDAM MUKHBARAT.
TO HELL WITH YOU MAY YOU WEEP AS I HAVE WEPT.
OK I’ll try a third time. We give you freedom and food and money and you behave like it was the stone age.
Well well well lookee here the trailer trash came back a third time.
Actually you gave “them” death torture starvation poverty and despair.
It must have really bothered you that I rejected your previous comments. You and David Duke and Bull Connor’s corpse should team up bud. You’re just made for one another.
Don’t bother coming back I wouldn’t want you to strain something or have a stroke because I won’t tolerate your usual trailer trash idiom. Now toddle along to your usual haunts and go back to telling everyone what a poor misunderstood fine figure of Christian man drownie is. You’re out of your league here dweeb.
Proud American - what is your problem you really have to lay off the bottle or is it weed or maybe both. Bien sur you are entitled to your opinion but your reference to the Stone Age is insulting - maybe it’s time you left your cave occasionally.
I’m an inbred moron from the shallow end of the gene pool. When I’m not busy beatin’ off about Jeff Gannon. I’m down at the goodwill store tryin to find books like dichsunairys an Bibles with lotsa thin pages that don’t scratch too much to use in mah outhouse.
Hey did you know that the Bible was written a reel clever guy called Massah Gideon. I read that on its flying leef just before ah wiped. Ain’t it jest wunnerful what hedumacayshun can do?
I said right at the start that I’d trex particularly onboxious comments.
Course the problem with them books with thin paper is that sumtymes mah finger pokes thru but hayull thats what jeens are for!
Hey dimwit - your waterwings are leaking just like your potty mouth. Now splash back to the shallow end of the pool before you drown.
Every time you post here one of us is going to do this to you. Racist comments won’t be tolerated.
Hey M and E,
Just got an autoreply to an email I sent. God speed and good luck to everyone.
Jaysus I could go broke on candles and flowers. :-))))
Me too - Thank you declan.
Well, well.
Just looking at this comment section is a demonstration of how freedom of expression inevitably leads to some degree of friction, polarisation and offence.
Proud American’s reference to the stone age was offensive to Grania, personally I thought it was simply moronic (am I causing offence yet?).
Free expression of opinion always walks a thin line because it can indeed easily offend, yet at the same time it’s the only means of building bridges we have, through discussion with the “other side”.
What we need right now is to start building some of these bridges.
A unilateral cease-fire from those who feel the cartoons were perhaps in bad taste but didn’t deserve the furore they received, would be a starting point. I’m not talking about a full row back apology, but cessation of further publication of the toons would be a starting point. Then we need to engage with the Muslim community in a measured, non-confontational debate, in which all parties can indeed freely express their thoughts and in which we may actually create more understanding of each others positions. It’s our only chance of getting out of this quagmire and avoid future ones…
Last night’s Newsnight featured such a debate, showing that it can be fruitful.
Mark,
Thanks. As you know, we are heading for a Constitutional crisis over the spying of our Government of eMails such as these. (Hello, Alberto). Its pretty sad but I am confident we will come out of it a stronger and more liberal nation. Then we have a lot of amends to make. I doubt the big boys will, but us average folk feel pretty bad. But, did Cromwell ever say “I’m sorry?”
Mostly I share your confidence doc. Americans in my experience don’t like being lied to, don’t like peeping toms, and don’t like extremists of any flavour.
In all of this let’s remember that there’s an awful lot that’s good about America. For all her faults she is still a pretty good country and when she comes to herself can be be a pretty powerful force for good.
Gert - no you’re not being offensive. Proud American just trots out the same tired rhetoric from our right wing talk radio knuckleheads and it gets weary. I’m with you on the unilateral cease fire. Hopefully we will be spared further news-flashes from Proud American’s colon!
Gert,
I’ll second what Grania has said. PA’s opinions are his own and he’s both welcome and entitled to them. However this is my blog and I look upon it as part of my home. I don’t tolerate racist scatology in my physical home and I won’t tolerate it here. When he refrains from it his posts get published. The last few comments he made were such that I decided to trex them. He hasn’t been back since.
In two election cycles, both which are questionable, this country allowed the Boy King to become President. I went to bed for 2 weeks over the 2000 election and fight to get up every day. My children motivate and sustain me, as well as the voices of reason and experience I find here on the web. I am so ashamed of the leaders of this country and so filled with constant grief over this war that should never, ever have happened. As a result of that aggression, bush essentially kicked sand in the face of the Middle East and the Arab world in the name of Liberty, Freedom and Democracy. What is so ironic now is that we are talking about fear of martial law and how to protect our most basic american right, freedom of speech as we learn that we are spied on by the government. Americans are burning churches in the south of our country where the population is often poor and black. Our poor Hurricane Katrina folk are being kicked out of the hotels they have lived in since the fall and the Boy King has decided to ignore them after promising them a new city.
A majority of American citizens are horrified at the crimes of this administration. Ali is so right that this western president and his cronies are criminal in thier conduct and have sent Iraq back by decades. I don’t know how we as a country can ever make restitution for this other than to speak out against the impending tyranny and challenge them for thier crimes. As a regular person, a nurse and mom living north of boston in massachusetts, I can do these things but they are unimportant. In my work as a hospice nurse, I excel at comforting and relieving the pain of those who are seriously ill and dying. But I am powerless to provide comfort here aside from reaching out to say that there are many like me who abhor the damage done in our names and are working for peace and justice.
I said in another comment that I support the elimination of filth you have chosen here. It is easy for people to spit ugliness from thier comfortable homes into thier keyboards. It would be quite another for them to walk a mile in your shoes.